Liminal Boundaries

Shunning as a social sanction...

2011-04-03T12:27:28Z

Posted by: samvara

I'm not sure how I feel about this as a practice, but it's an interesting topic for discussion. We're gently moving towards our next Safe Spaces discussion at Swancon 2011 and I thought it was worth raising to see if people wanted to share their thoughts and / or experiences.

We have in the past as a community asked members to not participate in activities because they behaved in unsafe ways, we have talked about how to engage with people who are unsafe and we have talked about making sure people experience enough feelings of safety to be able to act when they need to.

What triggered this: Tackling Misogyny: Procedures or Social Sanctions? by Wildly Parenthetical talks about using shunning as a means of responding to sexual harassment or harassers when formal processes don't feel like they are working. Mary follows up by talking about feeling less safe.

I suspect there are multiple issues bound up in this.

Sexual harassment happening at all (ugh)
Formal methods of dealing with sexual harassment and their effectiveness
Informal methods, their effectiveness and who bears the weight of responsibility for dealing
The consequences for people in the community when 1. 2. and 3. happens
The responsibilities for people in the community when 1. 2. 3. and 4. happens

For me I feel I can only really address 1. by not harassing people. To my knowledge I'm doing OK at this (please let me know if you have a different experience of my behaviour, I will thank you, apologise and try to make amends).

We have been addressing 2. via mechanisms like having an official policy, and to a certain extent 3. has overlap in that we have volunteer contact people at Swancon who provide support and advocacy, by running Safe Spaces and by networking extensively.

Number 4. is a really tough one. The process of creating policy, of deciding to run Safe Spaces and of performing all those support activities has come about because of both specific incidents and because that process has highlighted that we don't all share the same values in relation to those incidents and that makes some of us feel quite unsafe.

Mary talks about how it feels after it turns out that a loud minority feel that sexual harassment is the effective/normal/desirable (at least, but not exclusively) heterosexual mating strategy which is what left me thinking about this...

I feel like my responsibilities (no. 5) are to engage with the people I can engage with, and to do no harm to the people I can't - I'm not sure where shunning fits in this spectrum. I don't want to have contact with people who may damage me, and I feel pretty comfortable expressing that reservation to my friends.

Long term I want the situation to shift, I don't want to be stuck in some holding pattern where I can't go somewhere or talk to some people because they are dangerous to me. I want either the environment to become more wholesome, or to find a nicer environment.

What about you?

comments

Intervention in Public Spaces

2010-09-12T05:03:53Z

Posted by: samvara

Ages ago, someone requested that we talk a bit about the experience of being in a public space and having someone behave in a way that is unsettling - and how to respond. My apologies for taking so long to come to this post; it left me thinking about times I've been uncomfortable, about times I've acted or not acted and I didn't come to something that I felt I could articulate easily.

I do think there's a lot to talk about here and I think it's a valuable conversation to have, I think it's a difficult thing to be called on your behaviour publicly and possibly an even more difficult thing to be the one doing the calling.

( Read more... )

What I got out of these examples is that it is possible to act when you are genuinely able to be present and engage with the person. I think it's important to be interested in and caring towards them. I suspect if I approached a situation because I wanted something for me, as in for them to shut up or go away, then they will perceive this and respond accordingly.

What do you think?

comments

When it is OK to hug or touch someone

2010-07-19T10:27:13Z

Posted by: samvara

...and how do you work it out without making the other person feel uncomfortable or pressured to say yes out of forced politeness.

We talked about this recently at Slashcon 2010 and I'm thinking this is a conversation we should probably be having at least once a year. I'd like to keep refining what we know, and to look at ways to be better at it.

I think we're all in agreement on touching people being something you should get consent for first. I'd like to ramble a little about step 2 which is how to make sure you get consent (from both sides).

Getting Consent

The basics are about being sensitive to the other person's body language and radiating 'I will respect your choice' as hard as you can.

This can be as simple as not moving your arms when you ask about hugging; don't make it look like you assume the answer is 'Yes.'

One challenge is that people don't like to say 'No.' If you put someone in a situation where if they say 'No' they feel uncomfortable and if they say 'Yes' they feel uncomfortable then you haven't done them any favours.

purrdence used 'do you hug?' accompanied by very neutral body language which I liked a lot (not on me BTW, I just observed and was impressed). To me it read that if the response was 'No' then we could drop the topic and if the response was 'Yes' then there might be a follow up question along the lines of '...may I hug you?'

The person it *was* used on said it felt very easy to respond with 'no I don't' and not feel uncomfortable. They also observed Slashcon felt like a safe space to them so it was easier than it would have been at other times. I guess we don't have a magic bullet, but maybe we have a useful tool :)

Giving Consent (or not giving consent)

We're working to develop a culture where we don't force touch on people or accidentally pressure them into saying 'Yes' to touch but we also need to work on making it OK to say 'No.' Most of us feel a reasonable or significant amount of discomfort where a situation calls for us to say 'No' and it doesn't matter whether this is a situation of little importance or of major importance; the discomfort is still there.

Part of open and effective communication is understanding that "No" is a complete sentence that does not require reasons or justifications. Additionally, "No" can come from a place of kindness and appreciation, it doesn't always arise from a negative space, even if as a response its job is to prevent a negative experience.

It's important to practice saying 'No' when you need to; it helps other people know where the boundaries are, and develops your ability to set them. Practice makes a big difference - we need to be good at saying no and we need to be good at hearing it.

Being good at hearing "No" is often simply making sure that in hearing it, you don't visit your disappointment on the person who has responded. Your responsibility to them is to acknowledge their response so that they understand that you've heard them and respect their position.

My Stuff... so you know a little about where I'm coming from

I'm not all that keen on casual touch and if I didn't have friends who like to, and who affirm affection through touch I'd probably be perfectly content with my woofer and a mink blanket. It's very important to me to know that people aren't going to touch me without my consent and I go into distress reasonably quickly (or teleport 3 feet backwards) if people try to hug, kiss or grab me without checking to see if I want it first. This also applies to touching my chair when I'm sitting in it, looming, and absolutely covers backing me into walls THEN looming.

It's a bad enough experience for me that I would far rather back away, raise my hands and say' don't touch me' then suffer unwanted contact. I recognise that for a lot of people it can be a pretty confronting thing to do. I'm not proposing anyone adopt it as a tactic unless you're a couple of inches from panic in which case I can tell you it reliably stops most people dead.

I'm saying this to clarify that for me, I say something because it's a bad enough experience that I won't choose to absorb the discomfort. I suspect for most of us it falls more into the category of something you might choose to bring up but can choose to ignore.

Wrap up

I think the main things to remember is:

Pay attention to the other person, be sensitive to their body language and don't ask for more than they seem comfortable giving.
Radiate 'I am safe' as hard as you can, be clear in your words and body language that you will not ask for or impose more than they seem comfortable giving.
Say 'No' when you need to, it's good for you and it's good for them

I'd love for someone to suggest a way to phrase 'can I hug you' in such a way that the person can say 'Yes' to not being touched.

comments

Crossing The Line & What does 'Safe Space' mean to you?

2010-06-29T13:58:34Z

Posted by: samvara

chaosmanor found this today, it's an Australian Government site about boundary setting - we thought we'd share it.

Crossing The Line

Sometimes people make choices and do things which are unmistakably crossing the line.

When it comes to healthy relationships, there are a few important things to consider to ensure you are always on the right side of the line. Like trust, respect and open communication.

ETA... actually while I'm linking, I keep re-reading what amazonziti had to say about Safety and recalling how hard this was to define/talk about when we were discussing it at Swancon. I think she's expressed what I was reaching for in an understandable way. The entire post is dedicated to a number of issues and the whole thing is thoroughly worth reading although if you want context you'll need to read her earlier post (linked from the one above).

For me, a space space is one in which I trust I will be heard, and in which boundaries I set will be respected. I don't expect that I will always be comfortable - quite the reverse because I am committed to hearing others and respecting their boundaries and sometimes that will be challenging for me.

What does Safe Space mean to you?

comments

Is it about me, or you?

2010-05-30T06:25:51Z

Posted by: callistra

Is it about me, or about you?

Black_Samvara stated:

If I’m really upset, I don’t want to hear excuses (you), justifications (you) or explanations (you). I will eventually, but if I’m in state where I’m stressed and vulnerable, I want you to help me feel less stressed and safer and I want that to be your priority (me).

We can build up to working through or rehashing the situation once we’ve re-established mutual respect and trust.

I really wanted to have a close look at this, and maybe unpack it a bit. Please feel free to comment on this, or to bring out similar examples you would like for us to examine with you with the comments. This is a very simplified beginning of thre sorts of discussions we're hoping to have. More complexity will come later, I am sure. This article will focus on ideas of handling someone who responds defensively to a request to stop transgressive behaviour. This is a low level transgression, focusing on conversation pathways, rather then focusing on what to do when when trying to de-stress and re-create a safe space for establishing trust and respect.

( Read More... )Please have a think about the daily interactions that happen in your worklife, and suggest alternative ideas, concepts and wording to the examples above. Every one will choose to handle each situation differently. For example, someone with a great sense of humour might have some funny yet educational ideas on what to say; or perhaps someone who is a bit shy might have other ideas on less confrontational ways these discussions could be handled.

comments

Setting Boundaries... part the first ;)

2010-05-22T10:16:23Z

Posted by: samvara

Hello everyone! *waves*

Welcome aboard! I've been thinking about how to kick this off and I thought a good place to start might be to talk about boundary setting, and how we approach it. It gives us a chance to talk about our expectations, about how we want to be treated, and how we want to treat others both in this community and in our lives.

I have a few thoughts on setting boundaries. They come out my own life experiences, are far from final and I'd love to hear what you think. I’m not the final arbiter either, if you feel I’m not behaving appropriately or my language is not respectful enough, you may tell me and I will do my best to improve.

( Read more about my thoughts on boundary setting )

comments

Fantasy Short demonstrating boundary setting...

2010-05-16T11:35:55Z

Posted by: transcendancing

So! LJ-Silverai linked me to the following short story:

http://www.fantasyinminiature.com/2010/02/knight-guy/

It's quite short, but you can quickly see where it diverges from your average fairy tale. In fact you can perhaps start to see what's missing from traditional fairy tales... that tiny concept of autonomy.

In this story there is a very real discussion about boundaries going on and the knight is utterly perplexed that his dreams, his destiny could be utterly dashed in the wake of the princess' disinterest. In her responses to him, you can immediately see that not for an instant has he considered what her world is like, what she thinks, who she is etc... this is all irrelevant to his Dream, his Destiny! By the princess' words we start to see the whole scope of personality missing from fairy tale princesses in many cases.

I particularly like how in the princess' dialogue, she demonstrates that she shouldn't have to justify her decisions or desires. She also doesn't do that - except to point to more of the same where she gets to have her life the way she wants it.

I love that she's clear, not unkind but also unwilling to have the situation drag out. I also find it particularly realistic that even though the knight gives up, he doesn't get what's gone wrong or what's just happened. This mirrors much of my experience in this way - though not all of it. It's more likely that someone will react like the knight, than will respond going 'oh, you're right - I never thought of you at all and I apologise. I'll be going now' or some such.

Food for thought anyway, not to mention a great fictional example to look at!

comments

Welcome to Liminal Boundaries

2010-05-16T04:05:33Z

Posted by: samvara

In 2009, a panel was run at Swancon discussing the need to create Safe Spaces¹ and a second panel ran in 2010 discussing ways to create a Safe Space. The 2010 discussion was presented by myself, chaosmanor, transcendancing and callistra and we saw it as an opportunity to talk about building the kind of community we want to be part of. This discussion has since continued on couches, in coffee shops, online (and sometimes very passionately in kitchens) because it's very important to us.

We covered a lot of ground this year, and heard people say some pretty cool - and important stuff. I'd like to keep this conversation going, I'd like to keep it going all year and I'd like to be able to share that conversation with anyone who would like to be part of it.

My co-panellists and I propose to host discussions about anything and everything to do with boundaries, negotiating those boundaries, safe spaces, maintaining relationships and you know, anything else that crops up. Some stuff will be posted publicly, other stuff will be members only, so as to maintain a safe space for discussion.

You are invited and welcome to participate (or, you know, lurk if that's more your speed.) We ask that you treat topics and participants with respect and kindness, and that you bring with you a willingness to look within as well as without :)

I'll be posting (members only) semi-regular outlines of specific situations and inviting discussion. I'm interested in any scenarios people would like to propose for workshopping and can be contacted via DW messaging, comments or email me on black0samvara at gmail dot com.

¹Swancon2009 Safe Spaces at Cons mp3, 56:08 mins & 51.4MB (right-click and save). A broad introduction to and discussion of social etiquette at fan conventions.

comments